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Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

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swill453
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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#164851

Postby swill453 » September 7th, 2018, 10:51 am

If that's true then I'm staggered they think they can accept credits to the account but effectively ignore them and continue to charge interest as if they hadn't been made.

I believe this would breach the law change a little while back which meant credits had to be applied to the highest interest balance first.

Scott.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#164860

Postby PinkDalek » September 7th, 2018, 11:15 am

Satsuma wrote:The NEW situation (after this month) will be as follows:
… [b] - Extra manual payments will be set against activity from 9th onwards, or refunded if I request etc.


If I've understood correctly, they are still telling you it is perfectly acceptable for your credit card account balance to be in credit (debit in your books).

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#164885

Postby Satsuma » September 7th, 2018, 12:31 pm

swill453 wrote:If that's true then I'm staggered they think they can accept credits to the account but effectively ignore them and continue to charge interest as if they hadn't been made.

I believe this would breach the law change a little while back which meant credits had to be applied to the highest interest balance first.

Scott.


I don't think they will continue to charge interest, but at the same time, they now won't adjust the DD. Using my example scenario from earlier today, I think it would be:

6th - $500 ATM (Interest starts accruing)
7th - Appears on account (just assume it converts to £450)
7th midnight - statement snapshot taken at £450
8th - £450 manual payment made
9th - £450 manual payment cleared onto account (interest stops accruing/amount paid off)
1st - £450 DD taken (so I am now £450 in credit on my account)

PinkDalek wrote:If I've understood correctly, they are still telling you it is perfectly acceptable for your credit card account balance to be in credit (debit in your books).


Yes I think so. The lady mentioned a few times that (above example) £450 credit on my account would not be beneficial to me as it wouldn't be interest bearing, NOT that it wasn't allowed (in hindsight I thought it was odd at the time but it was part of a much longer conversation so unfortunately I forgot to press that exact point, aside from her explaining it could be offset against future spending; or I could call for a refund)

It seems like such a peculiar change and I agree with pp who thought I must have it wrong! But I have spent almost 2hours on the phone with this lady now, going over and over it and using example after example to illustrate scenarios.

I'd be very interested to hear if any other Clarity card holders have raised this issue with Halifax and got the same or different response?
(although be warned, one of the call centre agents I spoke to didn't seem to understand the issue at all, and I think he was confused by the fact I was talking about overseas ATMs which do attract interest, and purchases that don't)

Sats

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#164899

Postby RececaDron » September 7th, 2018, 1:31 pm

Just seen this thread.

I use my Clarity similarly to Satsuma.

Regarding the scope for "credit" balances, I do sometimes get modest positive balances on the Clarity account where my manual payments are over-zealous - they've never been returned, but they've not been large numbers of the sort that might arise if the new system operates as suspected...

I'll be using the card overseas in the next few weeks so it may yet become a little clearer how this new regime will work.

It wouldn't be a surprise to find out that the software is slightly more finessed than the front-office staff's explanations suggest, but similarly no surprise to discover it really is a bit cr@p! I shall wait and see, then modify behaviour accordingly if necessary/warranted; if it's a real pain then I'll give Halifax some grief to see if they'll address it, else consider switching to another provider.

Should become clearer in the next month or two!

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#164903

Postby GoSeigen » September 7th, 2018, 1:37 pm

swill453 wrote:If that's true then I'm staggered they think they can accept credits to the account but effectively ignore them and continue to charge interest as if they hadn't been made.


No-one is suggesting this bit about interest. Of course interest will not be charged on cleared balances. All they are saying is that the direct debit will be unadjusted and take too large a payment if you make manual payments between statement date and the payment due date.

GS

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#164921

Postby Satsuma » September 7th, 2018, 3:26 pm

RececaDron wrote:I'll be using the card overseas in the next few weeks so it may yet become a little clearer how this new regime will work.

It wouldn't be a surprise to find out that the software is slightly more finessed than the front-office staff's explanations suggest, but similarly no surprise to discover it really is a bit cr@p! I shall wait and see, then modify behaviour accordingly if necessary/warranted; if it's a real pain then I'll give Halifax some grief to see if they'll address it, else consider switching to another provider.

Should become clearer in the next month or two!


The change is scheduled to come into effect on 21st September.

Now I know the key dates on my account, I think I might schedule some test activity.
My additional cardholder is conveniently abroad soon after the changeover. The card will have a £0 balance on it when they leave the UK. I will ask them to make a small ATM withdrawal at the start of the month, which I will repay after the 8th (my statement date). I will then be able to see if they do or don't adjust the DD.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#165133

Postby richfool » September 8th, 2018, 1:45 pm

I would suggest setting up a funds transfer from your current account to the Hx Clarity card, through online banking, then on the day the cash withdrawal is made at the overseas ATM, transfer the sterling equivalent into the Clarity card to avoid incurring (or minimise) interest charges. The balance would also then have been reduced prior to the statement production date, thus facilitating the direct debit being based on the resultant reduced balance.

PS. I recently set up a "funds transfer" from my current account to my Clarity credit card, and transferred a nominal £10 credit to the credit card account (when it already had a zero balance) and it worked alright, and is thus currently showing a £10 credit balance.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#165358

Postby Satsuma » September 9th, 2018, 6:03 pm

richfool wrote:I would suggest setting up a funds transfer from your current account to the Hx Clarity card, through online banking, then on the day the cash withdrawal is made at the overseas ATM, transfer the sterling equivalent into the Clarity card to avoid incurring (or minimise) interest charges. The balance would also then have been reduced prior to the statement production date, thus facilitating the direct debit being based on the resultant reduced balance.

PS. I recently set up a "funds transfer" from my current account to my Clarity credit card, and transferred a nominal £10 credit to the credit card account (when it already had a zero balance) and it worked alright, and is thus currently showing a £10 credit balance.


WADR Richfool, you've kind of missed the entire point of the whole thread.

Sats

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#165395

Postby richfool » September 9th, 2018, 9:49 pm

Sats, The crux of my point was here:
The balance would also then have been reduced prior to the statement production date, thus facilitating the direct debit being based on the resultant reduced balance

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#165398

Postby swill453 » September 9th, 2018, 10:05 pm

richfool wrote:Sats, The crux of my point was here:
The balance would also then have been reduced prior to the statement production date, thus facilitating the direct debit being based on the resultant reduced balance

Whereas the crux of the thread is what happens if both the ATM withdrawal and the funds transfer happen after the statement production date.

Scott.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#165399

Postby richfool » September 9th, 2018, 10:16 pm

Whereas the crux of the thread is what happens if both the ATM withdrawal and the funds transfer happen after the statement production date.

Then they will be on the next one (as in reflected on the next statement). The funds transfer will be live (online) and would be made immediately after the ATM withdrawal.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#165400

Postby melonfool » September 9th, 2018, 10:21 pm

richfool wrote:
Whereas the crux of the thread is what happens if both the ATM withdrawal and the funds transfer happen after the statement production date.

Then they will be on the next one (as in reflected on the next statement). The funds transfer will be live (online) and would be made immediately after the ATM withdrawal.


Rich - you *really* need to read the thread, the stuff you are adding makes no sense in the context of the information in the Ts and Cs.

Mel

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#165443

Postby Satsuma » September 10th, 2018, 9:38 am

richfool wrote:Sats, The crux of my point was here:
The balance would also then have been reduced prior to the statement production date, thus facilitating the direct debit being based on the resultant reduced balance


Thanks Richfool. The point is when balances are reduced manually AFTER the statement is generated, as per the example I quoted here:

6th - $500 ATM (Interest starts accruing)
7th - Appears on account (just assume it converts to £450)
7th midnight - statement snapshot taken at £450
8th - £450 manual payment made
9th - £450 manual payment cleared onto account (interest stops accruing/amount paid off)
1st - £450 DD taken (so I am now £450 in credit on my account)


Currently I can make these payments right up till a few days before the DD is taken and the DD will reduce.
The new proposal is that any such extra payments will be paid onto the account, but the original DD will not be reduced by the same amount.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#165445

Postby Satsuma » September 10th, 2018, 9:53 am

richfool wrote:Then they will be on the next one (as in reflected on the next statement). The funds transfer will be live (online) and would be made immediately after the ATM withdrawal.


Also, on this point. I can't make the transfer till I know what the converted £amount is, which has taken 2-3 days to show up on a recent trip (well, I can make a guess I suppose, but I tend to just wait till it appears to be 100% sure).

I can then make a Faster Payment yes, but in reality what happens is that these payments are received but not actually posted to the account till later (based on me checking my account after making such payments). They do seem to be backdated to the date it was made though, so it must be an admin thing their end.

So now it could be 3 or 4 days from ATM to me paying it off.
This means if I time things really badly, the statement snapshot could be taken and any payment I make after that will be duplicated in the now-fixed DD.

My options then are to either phone up and get it refunded (difficult when I am overseas and not wanting to make international calls) or leave it to get "spent" against new transactions. My example was $500, but it could easily be a lot more.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#165447

Postby richfool » September 10th, 2018, 10:21 am

Hi Satsuma, I was looking upon it that one would make the foreign ATM cash withdrawal between statement dates (or at least not immediately preceding a statement date). The funds transfer would then be made within a day or two of the ATM withdrawal. Thus the balance on the credit card account would have been reduced prior to (both) the statement being issued and the direct debit amount being determined. Thus later when the statement is issued, the balance and the (next) DD should be based on the reduced net balance/figure.

(Understood things might go awry if the statement was produced immediately after the foreign ATM cash withdrawal was made and before the funds transfer was made, but if one has a reasonable idea of when one's statements are issued, that ought to be avoidable).

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#165460

Postby swill453 » September 10th, 2018, 12:04 pm

I think the ATM withdrawal, and its date, is a red herring.

The crux is what happens to the DD amount if a payment is made towards the balance after the statement is generated but before the DD date.

Scott.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#165486

Postby Satsuma » September 10th, 2018, 1:44 pm

richfool wrote:Hi Satsuma, I was looking upon it that one would make the foreign ATM cash withdrawal between statement dates (or at least not immediately preceding a statement date). The funds transfer would then be made within a day or two of the ATM withdrawal. Thus the balance on the credit card account would have been reduced prior to (both) the statement being issued and the direct debit amount being determined. Thus later when the statement is issued, the balance and the (next) DD should be based on the reduced net balance/figure.

(Understood things might go awry if the statement was produced immediately after the foreign ATM cash withdrawal was made and before the funds transfer was made, but if one has a reasonable idea of when one's statements are issued, that ought to be avoidable).


Yes that's how most people expect and understand it to work; and not the thing being queried.

The issue here is the change in policy to STOP amending the DD amount in light of payments received before the DD is taken. It now really is a matter of that one snapshot day being key, when before it would be approx 25 or so days flexibility. Having to now remember not to make transactions on other certain days is just annoying.

I had no awareness or interest that my statement is generated specifically on the 8th, for example. I focus on the fact that my DD was taken on the 1st of the month and each statement told me what the cut off date to make extra payments was. I then made any necessary extra payments before then and the DD would sweep up the remaining balance, job done.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#165487

Postby Satsuma » September 10th, 2018, 1:52 pm

swill453 wrote:I think the ATM withdrawal, and its date, is a red herring.

The crux is what happens to the DD amount if a payment is made towards the balance after the statement is generated but before the DD date.

Scott.


From my understanding - and I would be delighted to have got this all wrong! - that payment will be applied to the credit card balance owed.
But the DD amount being taken has been fixed and will not change after the statement date.
So cardholders can easily end up with credits on their account to the amount of whatever payment they made.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#165493

Postby arty » September 10th, 2018, 2:19 pm

richfool wrote:I would suggest setting up a funds transfer from your current account to the Hx Clarity card, through online banking, then on the day the cash withdrawal is made at the overseas ATM, transfer the sterling equivalent into the Clarity card to avoid incurring (or minimise) interest charges. The balance would also then have been reduced prior to the statement production date, thus facilitating the direct debit being based on the resultant reduced balance.

PS. I recently set up a "funds transfer" from my current account to my Clarity credit card, and transferred a nominal £10 credit to the credit card account (when it already had a zero balance) and it worked alright, and is thus currently showing a £10 credit balance.


BTW, rich - if you plan on doing this regularly, you might run into problems. I used mine exactly like this and found the card repeatedly blocked. One of the explanations that I was given was that it very often had a positive balance (I was only using it for cash withdrawals and had no other balance). It seems that if you make a payment into the credit card account, this happens more quickly than the processing of the ATM withdrawal. I was told that no interest is charged until the withdrawal shows on the account anyway, which seems to be the case, so should wait until then to make any payment.
I still find the card regularly blocked when overseas due to their overzealous security systems, but at least it's now only once per 5-10 withdrawals rather than once every other withdrawal.

It seems a few quid of positive balance is tolerated/ignored, but if it becomes higher it starts causing problems.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#165869

Postby Loup321 » September 12th, 2018, 12:55 pm

I've read this thread, although it doesn't apply to me (don't have a Halifax card...).

Today, my American Express direct debit was taken. Just before the last statement my OH hired a van. It was paid for using the Amex card, and a £200 charge also applied to the card (to cover any damage my OH caused). After the statement date, the £200 charge was reversed (no damage was caused). Today, the direct debit for the full amount on the statement was taken, so my account is £53 in credit. It will be back in the red before the next statement is issued, so it's no problem for me.

So, this thread covers how American Express operate their Platinum Cashback Card (and probably many others). I wasn't aware, because I don't often have refunds or make interim payments. Thanks for drawing my attention to this!

Lou


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