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Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171349

Postby absolutezero » October 4th, 2018, 9:59 am

richfool wrote:I haven't had a statement yet to prove the point, but I still think that if a part or full payment is made before the statement date, then the statement balance will be net of that payment and the direct debit amount will thus be set up similarly net of it.

Correct. It's the balance calculated on statement day that will be taken regardless of what else you do.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171352

Postby Watis » October 4th, 2018, 10:09 am

absolutezero wrote:
GoSeigen wrote:
Satsuma wrote:I sent a message to MSE way back when I first queried this. There is finally an article about it and, predicatably, people are now realising what it means in practice: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/ ... mers-caugh

FWIW, I am considering a Tandem card - https://www.tandem.co.uk/credit-card
(Same zero fees and preferential bank rates, but cashback on purchases as well)

Sats



It's possible Halifax want to quietly kill this card because it's not longer profitable for them? Death by a thousand cuts...

GS

I hardly think altering a direct debit policy that probably only affect a few thousand nerds that monitor their finances is a deliberate policy to p1ss people off!


That's not what I expected to read on a forum whose sole purpose is to encourage good financial management!

Watis

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171365

Postby Satsuma » October 4th, 2018, 11:05 am

To clarify on a couple of points:

GoSeigen wrote:Ah I hadn't seen that. Sounds more like cock-up then, perhaps developers given too much power or key decision overlooked/went the wrong way.


I was explicitly told this change had been decided by the business, in response to customers complaining they didn't understand how to repay their cards properly. The example I was given was that people paying manually on (e.g.) the DAY OF the DD couldn't understand why the DD would be taken also. I checked and double checked and it was confirmed that changes like this are made by management, partially in reference to customer issues and partially in reference to what they want to do themselves. My feedback has gone to the same decision makers and I haven't yet seen anyone congratulating them on a fantastic idea so there's always hope... :D

Halifax wrote:"From now on, if a customer makes a payment to their credit card account, it will no longer reduce their direct debit amount but will count as an additional payment, allowing them to reduce their balance more quickly."


This is interesting. As I have explained here at length, I was told (also explicitly) that the statement date was the cut off point. Payments received before that will reduce the DD. However the multiple text messages and the MSE article now say NO payments received will change the DD at all. As it happens, I handily have a charge on the card right now, so I have just paid a "test" fiver off it this morning and I will pay another fiver off after the statement date next week. In theory today's payment should reduce the DD by £5, but next week's shouldn't? I will update when the DD is taken start of November....

Sats

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171368

Postby Satsuma » October 4th, 2018, 11:14 am

I forgot to include my theory about all of this:

This is a Lloyds/Halifax-wide decision which affects all their cards.
I imagine they have a lot of cardholders of "normal" cards who have have an ongoing balance, only paying minimum amounts etc. This puts Lloyds/Halifax in a risky position wrt potential bad debtors.

...Whereas Clarity is a "specialist" card mostly used in a specific way (overseas), and generally by more savvy people who clear balances and don't have issues with credit card debt.

So this change to help the first group who have debt is a "socially responsible" move to help them clear it (and also not entirely co-incidentally reduce bank exposure to bad debt!) and Clarity just got swept up in it.

That would explain:
1. why they sent me a generic T&C letter which referenced facilities I have never had available on my account;
2. why the first adviser I spoke to couldn't get his head round the issue and kept giving me irrelevant/conflicting information about interest;
3. and why this is a "business decision"

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171371

Postby RececaDron » October 4th, 2018, 11:24 am

Satsuma wrote:To clarify on a couple of points:

GoSeigen wrote:Ah I hadn't seen that. Sounds more like cock-up then, perhaps developers given too much power or key decision overlooked/went the wrong way.


I was explicitly told this change had been decided by the business, in response to customers complaining they didn't understand how to repay their cards properly.


I'm sure they did consciously decide to do this - while still not fully grasping the nuances and negative repercussions that have been highlighted here. This type of cock-up occurs all the time with non-detail merchants. [cough Brexit cough]

The usual MO is for management to never admit they've messed things up and to simply endure the complaints and loss of business.

A faint chance Halifax may actually fix it (developers write a few lines of code) but I won't hold my breath.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171394

Postby chas49 » October 4th, 2018, 12:42 pm

Satsuma wrote:
Halifax wrote:"From now on, if a customer makes a payment to their credit card account, it will no longer reduce their direct debit amount but will count as an additional payment, allowing them to reduce their balance more quickly."


This is interesting. As I have explained here at length, I was told (also explicitly) that the statement date was the cut off point. Payments received before that will reduce the DD. However the multiple text messages and the MSE article now say NO payments received will change the DD at all. As it happens, I handily have a charge on the card right now, so I have just paid a "test" fiver off it this morning and I will pay another fiver off after the statement date next week. In theory today's payment should reduce the DD by £5, but next week's shouldn't? I will update when the DD is taken start of November....

Sats


As I commented up-thread, I made a manual payment (actually a balance transfer) with just happened to hit my Clarity a/c on the statement date - and was shown on the statement, and the full balance DD reflected the lower balance. Had it arrived a day later, they would have collected £2000 and my a/c would be £2000 in credit!! (Contrary to the T&Cs which say you mustn't put the a/c in credit).

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171419

Postby RececaDron » October 4th, 2018, 2:56 pm

chas49 wrote:I made a manual payment (actually a balance transfer) with just happened to hit my Clarity a/c on the statement date - and was shown on the statement, and the full balance DD reflected the lower balance.


Couple of weeks back I made a payment date the same as the statement date, but my payment wasn't included on the statement. So, I expect they'll take a DD shortly based on the statement balance and I'll need to get a load of dosh back from them...

What's the score for recovering this 'credit' balance? If you call them will they send it back (to the paying a/c)?

Also, just received a text message "REMINDER", about extra payments at any time not reducing the Direct Debit.

Not very impressed with this a/c turning from an occasionally useful one for travel purposes into an ongoing bunch of background hassle...

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171424

Postby RececaDron » October 4th, 2018, 3:19 pm

Satsuma wrote:4. Or, in my case, complete my Santander Zero card application and bin Clarity off.

I am strongly swayed to 4 now. I am just going to double check their T&Cs with fresh eyes to make sure they still work on the old "normal" way with manual payments.


Is the Santander Zero card a direct replacement for the Clarity, with one-to-one matching features?

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171430

Postby absolutezero » October 4th, 2018, 3:34 pm

RececaDron wrote:
chas49 wrote:I made a manual payment (actually a balance transfer) with just happened to hit my Clarity a/c on the statement date - and was shown on the statement, and the full balance DD reflected the lower balance.


Couple of weeks back I made a payment date the same as the statement date, but my payment wasn't included on the statement. So, I expect they'll take a DD shortly based on the statement balance and I'll need to get a load of dosh back from them...

What's the score for recovering this 'credit' balance? If you call them will they send it back (to the paying a/c)?

Also, just received a text message "REMINDER", about extra payments at any time not reducing the Direct Debit.

Not very impressed with this a/c turning from an occasionally useful one for travel purposes into an ongoing bunch of background hassle...

Not sure how it is 'background hassle'.
Just don't make any extra payments.
Or if you have to, then make sure you make them before the day your statement is calculated.
It's hardly rocket science.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171441

Postby swill453 » October 4th, 2018, 4:06 pm

absolutezero wrote:Not sure how it is 'background hassle'.
Just don't make any extra payments.
Or if you have to, then make sure you make them before the day your statement is calculated.
It's hardly rocket science.

Have you really read this thread before contributing it?

The whole point is that the Clarity card can be used for charge-free cash withdrawals abroad, but interest starts accruing from the day of withdrawal. So it makes sense to repay this withdrawal straight away. And if this happens to be between the statement date and the Direct Debit date ... the questions in this thread naturally follow.

Scott.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171443

Postby RececaDron » October 4th, 2018, 4:12 pm

absolutezero wrote:Not sure how it is 'background hassle'.
Just don't make any extra payments.
Or if you have to, then make sure you make them before the day your statement is calculated.
It's hardly rocket science.


Manual payments are required in order to minimise interest incurred on overseas cash withdrawals. And to minimise this interest, payments need to be made as early as possible, which may mean they fall on or after the last statement calculation date, as in my case the example above.

Previously, these overpayments on/after the statement date were handled "intelligently" by the DD run, such that DDs established to entirely clear a statement balance would automatically take account of the manual payments, reducing the DD amount.

It's hardly rocket science to code it that way - indeed it used to do that.

Now, to avoid the overpayment scenario, I've had to change my DD from "full balance" to "minimum payment", and then *every* month (not just the occasional month where I make overseas cash withdrawals) I need to manually pay off the rest of my statement balance.

So, a bunch of work I never previously had. A retrograde step in functionality and convenience. At some point, I'll probably be away when one of these manual payments needs to occur and, if I forget to schedule the payment in advance, I'll end up not clearing the CC balance one month, thereby incurring interest charges.

None of this is the end of the world, just a bunch of monthly hassle I never previously had and would prefer not to have.

NB perhaps read the entire thread which covers all this already! :lol:

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171444

Postby RececaDron » October 4th, 2018, 4:14 pm

And kudos to Sats for spotting all this before anyone else in the world...

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171459

Postby absolutezero » October 4th, 2018, 5:33 pm

I have read it - over a period of weeks.... :roll:

If it's that big an issue then just get ripped off by your local foreign exchange firm. Or pay the few pence (or maybe even quid if you are a big spender) that clarity will charge you as interest.

Not exactly a huge hardship, is it?
First world problem.

Moderator Message:
Redsturgeon: Your comments are not helpful and not really in keeping with the tone we would like to see on these boards.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171477

Postby Satsuma » October 4th, 2018, 7:27 pm

RececaDron wrote:
Satsuma wrote:4. Or, in my case, complete my Santander Zero card application and bin Clarity off.

I am strongly swayed to 4 now. I am just going to double check their T&Cs with fresh eyes to make sure they still work on the old "normal" way with manual payments.


Is the Santander Zero card a direct replacement for the Clarity, with one-to-one matching features?


It appears to be from my cursory look at the website. I think Scott (Swill) said he had one earlier in the thread so maybe he can let us know how he finds it (presumably good or he wouldn't be a customer!)

But I have switched focus to the Tandem card now, which does the same free free ATM withdrawals and overseas purchases, same Mastercard bank rate currency conversion, same "pay manually to reduce interest charges" - but also offers 0.5% cashback. And in a further bonus, isn't Santander :lol:

(It also seems to offer a £10 Amazon gift card if you know anyone with a referral link. I've copied some random guy's link on the MSE comments which I'll probably use unless any Lemons want to offer me theirs?)

Sats

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171479

Postby Satsuma » October 4th, 2018, 7:32 pm

RececaDron wrote:And kudos to Sats for spotting all this before anyone else in the world...


:D That's the Fool in me - actually reading those letters which say "we have changed some T&Cs..." and then being nerdy enough to follow up and ask. I am a little surprised it took so long for anyone else to notice. I did also tip off a different journalist as well as MSE, so it might get some even more focus if they write it up too.

absolutezero wrote:I have read it - over a period of weeks.... :roll:

If it's that big an issue then just get ripped off by your local foreign exchange firm. Or pay the few pence (or maybe even quid if you are a big spender) that clarity will charge you as interest.

Not exactly a huge hardship, is it?
First world problem.


I'm so sorry Zero, I hadn't realised reading this board was mandatory. But as has been pointed out, you have indeed missed the whole point so your attitude is not needed, welcome or accurate. :)

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171481

Postby swill453 » October 4th, 2018, 7:35 pm

Satsuma wrote:
RececaDron wrote:Is the Santander Zero card a direct replacement for the Clarity, with one-to-one matching features?


It appears to be from my cursory look at the website. I think Scott (Swill) said he had one earlier in the thread so maybe he can let us know how he finds it (presumably good or he wouldn't be a customer!)

But I have switched focus to the Tandem card now, which does the same free free ATM withdrawals and overseas purchases, same Mastercard bank rate currency conversion, same "pay manually to reduce interest charges"

Yes the Santander Zero has all that. Although in fact I've stopped using it for ATM cash, as I also now have a Nationwide Flexplus account that has a debit card for charge-free cash withdrawals abroad. Saves me having to worry about paying off the Santander Zero card to avoid interest charges.

I still use it for all purchases when abroad though.

Scott.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171482

Postby RececaDron » October 4th, 2018, 7:36 pm

absolutezero wrote:INot exactly a huge hardship, is it?
First world problem.


Hate to be the one to tell you, but this entire site - and every other personal finance / investment website that I've visited in the western (first!) world is chock full of people discussing first world problems - doh! :lol:

Problems like divis arriving a couple of days late, brokers changing their charging structures slightly, banks lowering an accounts interest rate by 0.1%, statements never arriving, call centre staff being a bit clueless, phone lines being engaged, websites sometimes being down, logins sometimes not working and inadvertently causing lockouts - the list is pretty much endless.

Moderator Message:
Removed unnecessary comments at the end - Clariman

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171483

Postby swill453 » October 4th, 2018, 7:40 pm

absolutezero wrote:If it's that big an issue then just get ripped off by your local foreign exchange firm. Or pay the few pence (or maybe even quid if you are a big spender) that clarity will charge you as interest.

I haven't paid any credit card interest for over 20 years, and I'm not going to start now. And it's especially annoying if it's because the CC provider has made a change and is claiming it's in my interest.

(Of course I don't actually have a Clarity card, but who's to say my provider won't start mucking things about like this).

Scott.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171546

Postby Clariman » October 5th, 2018, 5:43 am

Satsuma wrote:For those of you with Clarity cards:

1. Have you had the same letter?
2. Do you have the same interpretation regarding paying off balances before the full/remaining balance is collected by DD?
3. Can you summon up the will to call them and ask the same questions as me? (It always seems to be a long wait because they are "very busy" when I call - whether that is 2pm, 2am or dark side of the moon o'clock. Funny that....)

Sorry I'm late to the party but just tried to ask this question of Halifax yesterday. Queue on phone was too long and they did not respond to Messenger message.

I had the same interpretation as you and operate the card just like you, so in theory I could end up with a positive balance. Perhaps the question got resolved later in this thread so I will continue reading.

C

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171547

Postby Clariman » October 5th, 2018, 5:54 am

PinkDalek wrote:
Satsuma wrote:The NEW situation (after this month) will be as follows:
… [b] - Extra manual payments will be set against activity from 9th onwards, or refunded if I request etc.


If I've understood correctly, they are still telling you it is perfectly acceptable for your credit card account balance to be in credit (debit in your books).

I'm still ploughing through this thread so apologies if this was answered later.

I can confirm that Halifax will allow the Clarity card to have a positive balance (at least for a short time). I know this because I operate my card like Sats. If I make cash withdrawals abroad I make interim payments to clear the balance. Unlike Sats I don't wait until I see the withdrawal on my account, I make an interim payment within 24 hours of the withdrawal. This usually puts my account in credit for a few days at least.


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