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Santander strikes again PLUS

gnawsome
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Re: Santander strikes again PLUS

#158212

Postby gnawsome » August 9th, 2018, 12:18 pm

genou wrote:
I've seen the £1 suggestion, and it would be interesting to see what happens. Santander's published position is clear enough:

How do I use One Time Passcode if I do not have mobile phone coverage?
OTP can only be used in conjunction with a registered mobile phone with network coverage. However, don't forget that the majority of commonly used online banking transactions do not require OTP. If you do not wish to use a mobile phone then you can still make a payment to a new recipient using your branch or telephone banking service. Once a new recipient is set up, subsequent payments to that recipient can be made online without OTP.


https://retail.santander.co.uk/Estatico ... BS.html#o4


And yet they refuse to adhere to that published position, just to force me (and others?) to provide them with aregistered mobile number. There has to be a deeper reason

Alaric
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Re: Santander strikes again PLUS

#158231

Postby Alaric » August 9th, 2018, 1:55 pm

gnawsome wrote:And yet they refuse to adhere to that published position, just to force me (and others?) to provide them with aregistered mobile number. There has to be a deeper reason


I'd suspect it would work if you gave them a landline number. Even if they send it a text, many phones will read out what it says.

But you may be right that they are collecting mobile phone numbers for marketing reasons. I had a call from someone at my bank (not Santander) promoting their "with a fee bank account".

CryptoPlankton
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Re: Santander strikes again PLUS

#158238

Postby CryptoPlankton » August 9th, 2018, 2:13 pm

"How do I use One Time Passcode if I do not have mobile phone coverage?
OTP can only be used in conjunction with a registered mobile phone with network coverage. However, don't forget that the majority of commonly used online banking transactions do not require OTP. If you do not wish to use a mobile phone then you can still make a payment to a new recipient using your branch or telephone banking service. Once a new recipient is set up, subsequent payments to that recipient can be made online without OTP."


This seems to be the basis for the complaint and comes from:

https://retail.santander.co.uk/Estatico ... BS.html#o4

I found this myself on a Google search, but two things struck me:

1) It is NOT Santander's Ts&Cs, but a set of FAQs.

2) The FAQs do NOT come from the current Santander site, but appear to relate to a change in the online platform (which was quite some time ago IIRC).

I have looked at the FAQs on the Santander site and the current online banking Ts&Cs (effective from 13/1/18) and nowhere does it state that it is possible to do what is quoted above. It seems quite clear that you need to be able to use OTP to use online services effectively (Section 7.1):

https://www.santander.co.uk/uk/online-b ... conditions

So I'm afraid that if you are determined not to get a mobile phone then it would appear you need to transfer to another bank. I don't even believe that a complaint will get you anywhere as the change to Ts&Cs was undoubtedly done legitimately. None of us like change, but sadly that is the way of the world...

genou
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Re: Santander strikes again PLUS

#158240

Postby genou » August 9th, 2018, 2:21 pm

gnawsome wrote:You are not currently registered for One Time Passcode (OTP) which may be required to authorise this transaction.
Please take a minute to register for OTP now.
If you would like to register at a later date, please go to 'Change security details' in the My Details & Settings tab.
OTPREG_CODE1


That looks remarkably like a logic error in the coding behind the web site, in that it is checking for a phone number before establishing that it does not need one, because it is an existing payee.

Either you persuade Santander to fix it, or you work around it. I'd assume that if you had a registered number, you would be allowed to make payments to existing payees without an OTP. And if you created a payee in branch, you would then be able to pay them without an OTP. So, you need to set up a phone number. Can you get a relative to let you use their number for the one off process of registering it, and then you never need it again. You would need to untick the "use this number as my contact number" option.

GrandOiseau
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Re: Santander strikes again PLUS

#158244

Postby GrandOiseau » August 9th, 2018, 2:26 pm

So I think where the confusion may lie is that in order to make a payment using online banking you need a registered and verified number to in order to get OTP's even if the transaction you are making doesn't require it. So it doesn't matter if it's a known payee or not, the check on whether you are set up for OTP's is done before you even start to input the payment. There are probably good legitimate operational reasons for doing this. The fact that you can do a transaction without your phone does not mean the phone isn't registered.

Sorry gnawsome but there is no way round this, so it's like you need a new bank. Just make sure they use a code machine not OTPs.

clbrl01
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Re: Santander strikes again PLUS

#158248

Postby clbrl01 » August 9th, 2018, 2:33 pm

At risk of appearing to poke a stick through the bars on this one...

I really like Santander. Better than any other bank I've had (I'm a youthful 60).

I too received a pension lump sum, only last week. Tried to transfer out a large chunk online, and got a message back saying that I had exceeded some limit, and should ring their customer services or go to a branch.

Phoned their customer services. Usual security stuff. "How can I help you?" "I'd like to transfer £70,000 to xxx". "Oh yes I can see the payee details on your account... done. Anything else I can help you with?" "No, thank you very much for your help". Byes all round.

End of.

Clbrl01

gnawsome
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Re: Santander strikes again PLUS

#158479

Postby gnawsome » August 10th, 2018, 11:38 am

CryptoPlankton wrote:"How do I use One Time Passcode if I do not have mobile phone coverage?
OTP can only be used in conjunction with a registered mobile phone with network coverage. However, don't forget that the majority of commonly used online banking transactions do not require OTP. If you do not wish to use a mobile phone then you can still make a payment to a new recipient using your branch or telephone banking service. Once a new recipient is set up, subsequent payments to that recipient can be made online without OTP."


So I'm afraid that if you are determined not to get a mobile phone then it would appear you need to transfer to another bank. I don't even believe that a complaint will get you anywhere as the change to Ts&Cs was undoubtedly done legitimately. None of us like change, but sadly that is the way of the world.
..


That is very informative and would seem to definitely wrong foot me. Not sure how to deal with the matter – contemplating how to use my cheque book (until they give me 'the heave-ho'

gnawsome
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Re: Santander strikes again PLUS

#158496

Postby gnawsome » August 10th, 2018, 11:59 am

genou wrote:
That looks remarkably like a logic error in the coding behind the web site, in that it is checking for a phone number before establishing that it does not need one, because it is an existing payee.

Either you persuade Santander to fix it, or you work around it. I'd assume that if you had a registered number, you would be allowed to make payments to existing payees without an OTP. And if you created a payee in branch, you would then be able to pay them without an OTP. So, you need to set up a phone number. Can you get a relative to let you use their number for the one off process of registering it, and then you never need it again. You would need to untick the "use this number as my contact number" option.


I started out with hopes that the Ombudsman would be able to persuade S that 'treating customers fairly' was a proper course of action but it seems the Ombudsman has different objectives than I supposed. (ongoing). The likelihood of my persuasive capacity over S is vanishingly small.
I can see how there may be 'work-arounds' involving rellies but this matter is now a matter of principle and I expect to dumped by S. I see that as being bad publicity for them especially as compared with how NW is responding to reaction to their online banking proposals.

gnawsome
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Re: Santander strikes again PLUS

#158505

Postby gnawsome » August 10th, 2018, 12:24 pm

GrandOiseau wrote:So I think where the confusion may lie is that in order to make a payment using online banking you need a registered and verified number to in order to get OTP's even if the transaction you are making doesn't require it. So it doesn't matter if it's a known payee or not, the check on whether you are set up for OTP's is done before you even start to input the payment. There are probably good legitimate operational reasons for doing this. The fact that you can do a transaction without your phone does not mean the phone isn't registered.

Sorry gnawsome but there is no way round this, so it's like you need a new bank. Just make sure they use a code machine not OTPs.

Thank you so much for all the help and advice. It must have taken much research and time. I hope it will have cleared the air for some others as well.The ombudsman will respond eventually and I will be somewhat wiser now as to how to respond to that.
Meanwhile in the reexamining of my banking trxns I found that I am missing payments from ELPS that should have gone into my deceased wife's account – that account and all things associated having been transferred to me.
Just had it confirmed by ELPS that the payments were rejected by S.
I will now need to ask S for an explanation.

vrdiver
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Re: Santander strikes again PLUS

#158507

Postby vrdiver » August 10th, 2018, 12:26 pm

If you do move away from Santander, First Direct offer a choice of either using an app on a smartphone, OR they will send you a security device.

Personally, if my bank wasn't working for me, I'd be looking to move to one that did...

Good luck
VRD

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Re: Santander strikes again PLUS

#158513

Postby PinkDalek » August 10th, 2018, 12:30 pm

gnawsome wrote:Meanwhile in the reexamining of my banking trxns I found that I am missing payments from ELPS that should have gone into my deceased wife's account – that account and all things associated having been transferred to me.
Just had it confirmed by ELPS that the payments were rejected by S.
I will now need to ask S for an explanation.


To clarify, are you saying your deceased wife's bank account still exists but it has had a name change to yours or perhaps it was formerly a joint account and passed solely into your name automatically on her decease and, without wishing to intrude, is your wife's death a recent event?

gnawsome
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Re: Santander strikes again PLUS

#158579

Postby gnawsome » August 10th, 2018, 3:41 pm

vrdiver wrote:If you do move away from Santander, First Direct offer a choice of either using an app on a smartphone, OR they will send you a security device.

Personally, if my bank wasn't working for me, I'd be looking to move to one that did...

Good luck
VRD

Thanks for the suggestion, I will certainly look at First Direct – my requirements are quite small but they might not like that I would not be a 'prospective' for further services.

gnawsome
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Re: Santander strikes again PLUS

#158583

Postby gnawsome » August 10th, 2018, 3:57 pm

PinkDalek wrote:To clarify, are you saying your deceased wife's bank account still exists but it has had a name change to yours or perhaps it was formerly a joint account and passed solely into your name automatically on her decease and, without wishing to intrude, is your wife's death a recent event?


Until my wife's death we each had separate accounts with S (which I managed)
After her death all her account was added to my account
I understood that to mean any credits or debits to her - now closed - account would pass to my account along the lines of 'switching an account' and that this would continue for a year.
My wife died 18/06/2017
The payments to her account were made by ELPS in May 2018 and rejected by S


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