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Selling houses and cctv

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Fluke
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Selling houses and cctv

#192525

Postby Fluke » January 10th, 2019, 6:59 pm

A neighbour is having cctv installed to the front of his house and understands that he has to get my agreement and that of his neighbour the other side because our frontages are quite narrow. It doesn't bother me in fact as far as I can see it will only enhance security to our little row of houses. However I'm thinking of selling my house this year, does anyone know if this is something I would have to 'declare' to the buyer? Could it present any potential problems? I'm told the camera wouldn't pick up my front door but might pick up comings and goings to the front of the house/gate.

Probably a grey area as it's a relatively recent phenomenon, but better to nip any potential problems in the bud now before he goes ahead.

Lootman
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Re: Selling houses and cctv

#192540

Postby Lootman » January 10th, 2019, 7:57 pm

Fluke wrote:A neighbour is having cctv installed to the front of his house and understands that he has to get my agreement and that of his neighbour the other side because our frontages are quite narrow. It doesn't bother me in fact as far as I can see it will only enhance security to our little row of houses. However I'm thinking of selling my house this year, does anyone know if this is something I would have to 'declare' to the buyer?

I don't know for certain but have the following thoughts:

1) If your buyer doesn't like this then he/she may not want your house or make a lower bid on it. So if you agree to your neighbour's request then you may potentially be reducing the universe of people who want to bid on your property. So I might refuse permission, sell the place and then let the new owner negotiate with the neighbour.

2) I suspect that you may have to disclose this fact IF the list of questions you get from the buyer's solicitors asks for it, and not otherwise. If asked then you have to say if you know, or potentially be held liable later.(*) Which might in turn lead me not to respond to the neighbour's request so that you can later deny any knowledge of it, if you decide that you wish to.

3) Cameras today are so discreet that I suspect in practice anyone can install such devices without formally asking for permission. How would anyone know? In fact I am a little surprised that such permission is needed, since there is no reasonable expectation of privacy outside your front door. That said I deplore the more general tendency to photograph and film people in public places.

(*) An estate agent told me that a seller cannot be held liable for anything they say to a buyer or their agents. But an estate agent or other professional can be.

Clitheroekid
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Re: Selling houses and cctv

#192578

Postby Clitheroekid » January 10th, 2019, 9:39 pm

Fluke wrote:I'm thinking of selling my house this year, does anyone know if this is something I would have to 'declare' to the buyer?

When you sell your house you have to complete a Property Information Form. Question 3.1 is as follows:

Have any notices or correspondence been received or sent(e.g. from or to a neighbour, council or government department), or any negotiations or discussions taken place, which affect the property or a property nearby? If Yes, please give details:

As the CCTV discussion is a discussion which affects both your property and your neighbour's property then yes, it should be declared.

Ideally, you would give your neighbour a `licence' for his CCTV to include your house in its field of vision, but include a provision that the licence could be withdrawn on, say, two weeks' notice.

This would mean that if, having disclosed the agreement to a buyer, they objected to the arrangement, you could then withdraw your consent. Unfortunately, however, establishing that the neighbour was no longer filming your house might prove tricky.

If you don't want to have a formal arrangement then maybe the best thing to do would be to drop him an email saying that whilst you're quite happy with the arrangement you want to clarify that it's a purely personal agreement between the two of you, and that a future owner of the house wouldn't be bound by it.

didds
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Re: Selling houses and cctv

#192802

Postby didds » January 11th, 2019, 4:08 pm

Lootman wrote:Which might in turn lead me not to respond to the neighbour's request so that you can later deny any knowledge of it, if you decide that you wish to.

.


except _maybe_ if this ever came to pushing and shoiving the neighbour might be able to show you did have knowledge of it (even if you didn't respond).

whether things would ever get that far is another question of course! :-)

didds

jfgw
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Re: Selling houses and cctv

#192822

Postby jfgw » January 11th, 2019, 5:26 pm

Lootman wrote:1) If your buyer doesn't like this then he/she may not want your house or make a lower bid on it. So if you agree to your neighbour's request then you may potentially be reducing the universe of people who want to bid on your property. So I might refuse permission, sell the place and then let the new owner negotiate with the neighbour.


IANAL but am wondering if I am missing something here.

If you give consent, is that consent transferred with the house? If you sold the house, would the neighbour not have to have the consent of the new owner in order to continue to use a CCTV system which covers part of what is currently your frontage?

Julian F. G. W.

Lootman
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Re: Selling houses and cctv

#192832

Postby Lootman » January 11th, 2019, 6:17 pm

jfgw wrote:
Lootman wrote:1) If your buyer doesn't like this then he/she may not want your house or make a lower bid on it. So if you agree to your neighbour's request then you may potentially be reducing the universe of people who want to bid on your property. So I might refuse permission, sell the place and then let the new owner negotiate with the neighbour.

IANAL but am wondering if I am missing something here. If you give consent, is that consent transferred with the house? If you sold the house, would the neighbour not have to have the consent of the new owner in order to continue to use a CCTV system which covers part of what is currently your frontage?

I believe so, by default. Which is why I think that CK made this suggestion above:

"Ideally, you would give your neighbour a `licence' for his CCTV to include your house in its field of vision, but include a provision that the licence could be withdrawn on, say, two weeks' notice."

My general practice for the properties I owned was to not respond to any such requests for permission, on the grounds that I wish to retain flexibility about what I agree to and what is documented. If it was a clear case of my either being perfectly OK with the idea or vehemently opposed, then I might respond accordingly. But most of the time I just let things slide.

AF62
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Re: Selling houses and cctv

#192858

Postby AF62 » January 11th, 2019, 7:05 pm

Fluke wrote:A neighbour is having cctv installed to the front of his house and understands that he has to get my agreement and that of his neighbour the other side because our frontages are quite narrow.


I don't believe they do require your permission.

If the cctv does capture images outside their property that means they need to comply with the General Data Protection Regulation and the Data Protection Act, but it doesn't mean that they have to stop if you don't agree (although you could make their life difficult with subject access requests).

https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/do ... sing-cctv/

stewamax
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Re: Selling houses and cctv

#192884

Postby stewamax » January 11th, 2019, 8:53 pm

There are a couple of legal conundrums here:

A. The ICO says that CCTV images you record of things outside your property are subject to the GDPR and DPA. However the GDPR and DPA refer to collecting and retaining information about people, and it begs the question of whether a photo (whether moving or still and without any caption) is information about a person. The GDPR for example specifically excludes photos unless they are processed to obtain data that can be tied to an individual.

B. With a few exceptions such as taking images of children and/or in restricted areas, it is legal to take photos of others in a public place.

Fluke
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Re: Selling houses and cctv

#192959

Postby Fluke » January 12th, 2019, 10:04 am

I wish I'd waited for your replies before I did anything, since posting I've since responded saying that while I'm happy for him to go ahead, would he mind waiting until his new neighbours have moved in and agree it with them. He replied saying that he now understands that he doesn't need permission and that he'd still like to go ahead. But he has asked my permission now and it's in writing (text message), and I've replied. So yes, as Clithero has clarified, I will need to declare it regardless of whether he needed to ask!

This has an admittedly small potential, but a potential none the less, of becoming an obstacle to selling. It sends the message that it may not be as safe an area as they think (it is incredibly safe), and might spook anyone who is spooked by this sort of thing.

OK one more question, how would I go about drawing up a 'licence'? does this have to be an 'official' thing, or can it be something as simple as an email?


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