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Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

hiriskpaul
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Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#2147

Postby hiriskpaul » November 8th, 2016, 12:29 pm

It is coming up to 3 years since the Bank's restructuring and the issue of 42TE. I still hold all my 42TE and am interested to know how many others still do. Have you sold out, or reduced? Alternatively have you bought?

At a price of 130, the yield is now down to 6.5% and I have been thinking for a while that it might be prudent to reduce my position. It is difficult though as I still think there is upside to come at the current price and it is hard to find comparable risk/reward outside the banking sector. I would not be surprised to see the yield drop to 5% in a year or 3.

Wizard
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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#2152

Postby Wizard » November 8th, 2016, 12:39 pm

Still holding all of mine, like you hard to see what I would replace it with if I sold them.

Terry.

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#2162

Postby youfoolishboy » November 8th, 2016, 1:07 pm

Still holding and increased them a little earlier in the year.

Laughton
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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#2167

Postby Laughton » November 8th, 2016, 1:11 pm

Yes, me still holding and added a few more in the summer.

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#2236

Postby Surerera » November 8th, 2016, 3:02 pm

See no reason to sell, just got my BOI interest and am thinking of topping up.

bobsmydog
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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#2382

Postby bobsmydog » November 8th, 2016, 7:16 pm

Yes still holding these no plans to sell or add.

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#2663

Postby Holts » November 9th, 2016, 9:13 am

Still holding the group , even bought a few more of the Bank sub debt recently .

martineevans
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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#3860

Postby martineevans » November 11th, 2016, 4:52 pm

Still holdimg - even thinking of a modest increase to holding

LibertyTaker
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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#4901

Postby LibertyTaker » November 14th, 2016, 5:25 pm

Still holding onto mine and I've purchased Co-Op 42RQs since then.

Pleased to see familiar names from TMF!

Regards to all
LibertyTaker

NeilOne
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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#6593

Postby NeilOne » November 18th, 2016, 8:16 pm

I have mine but not added more since the original swap.

JohnEdwards
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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#23317

Postby JohnEdwards » January 15th, 2017, 7:12 pm

Just found this group - didn't even know TMF had closed boards!

Still have my 42TEs - doesn't seem any reason to sell yet.

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#23573

Postby Kr1ck » January 16th, 2017, 6:18 pm

Sold mine as trying to diversify from fixed income. I think the risk has fallen on these and agree yield may drop to 5%. Good luck to those still holding.

taken2often
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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#23829

Postby taken2often » January 17th, 2017, 4:52 pm

I still have a lot. But to-day I have decided to trim down and take my loss on some. On the repayments I will also trim down and in my Taxable
account got the capital tax loss for last year.

I think the Coop is still dodgy and I have an expectation of interest rate rises during 2018 which will cut the market value on the 11%. I had away to much and faced a massive loss, so it worked out after a fashion.

Bob

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#29534

Postby youfoolishboy » February 7th, 2017, 7:42 am

Anyone else thinking of selling these due to the small sympathetic fall due to the fall in the bank ones taking a pasting? I believe the 20% the Group own of the bank is only about 5% of the Group's assets and I cannot seem to find anything else in the prospectus linking bank and group so they look safe but if the bank fails I foresee another larger sympathetic fall. Anyone else having these thoughts or know something I don't?

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#29644

Postby Laughton » February 7th, 2017, 3:43 pm

Have some cash waiting for more Bank problems and (as you say) further sympathetic falls in 42TE to top up.
If the Bank can mudle through until the end of March there'll be that coupon to add to the pot too.

Laughton
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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#29663

Postby Laughton » February 7th, 2017, 4:49 pm

Pennycook to step down at Co-Op Group

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/co-op ... 00664.html

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#29754

Postby GoSeigen » February 7th, 2017, 10:57 pm

Laughton wrote:Have some cash waiting for more Bank problems and (as you say) further sympathetic falls in 42TE to top up.
If the Bank can mudle through until the end of March there'll be that coupon to add to the pot too.


Can't believe people are talking about the bank "muddling through" until March. There's a variety of nonsense being written on the fixedincomeinvestments board about "sell-offs of bonds" and whatnot. I don't think Co-op Bank's survival is remotely threatened. It does need to raise regulatory capital. If it can do that at the expense of creditors it will be very pleased. However, the business is otherwise on an increasingly sound footing IMO. Meanwhile wait for a stabilisation in the senior pricing before diving into the subs.

GS

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#29813

Postby Laughton » February 8th, 2017, 9:44 am

As a holder of the 2017 senior I certainly hope you're right - but with a YTM on the bid of approaching 36% there are an awful lot of people out there who think otherwise.

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#29826

Postby youfoolishboy » February 8th, 2017, 10:28 am

GoSeigen wrote:
Laughton wrote:Have some cash waiting for more Bank problems and (as you say) further sympathetic falls in 42TE to top up.
If the Bank can mudle through until the end of March there'll be that coupon to add to the pot too.


Can't believe people are talking about the bank "muddling through" until March. There's a variety of nonsense being written on the fixedincomeinvestments board about "sell-offs of bonds" and whatnot. I don't think Co-op Bank's survival is remotely threatened. It does need to raise regulatory capital. If it can do that at the expense of creditors it will be very pleased. However, the business is otherwise on an increasingly sound footing IMO. Meanwhile wait for a stabilisation in the senior pricing before diving into the subs.

GS


If the bank has to do an LME I would not say it is on a sound footing.

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE)

#29882

Postby GoSeigen » February 8th, 2017, 12:36 pm

youfoolishboy wrote:
GoSeigen wrote:, the business is otherwise on an increasingly sound footing IMO.


If the bank has to do an LME I would not say it is on a sound footing.


No major disagreement then, just subtle misquoting ;-)

A brief justification of my mildly bullish view:

1. Need for LME does NOT equate to insolvent business. Regulatory capital is more constraining than solvency requirements.
2. The Bank has offloaded a lot of non-core business.
3. The Bank has written off a load of bad loans i.e. they are no longer on the balance sheet.
4. The Bank has taken many steps to improve its business processes, IT etc
5. The Bank has already successfully raised capital a couple of times.
6. Capital is soon to pour into the Bank in the form of loan repayments.
7. The Bank has already been hit with many fines and other charges: these are likely to tail off.
8. The Bank will increasingly be able to write profitable new business.
9. The general banking environment is improving with peers' equity prices up 50% or more from lows.
10. UK is BREXITing. That's gotta be good news!!!

GS


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