Remove ads

Introducing the LemonFools Personal Finance Calculators

Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

Does what it says on the tin
staffordian
Lemon Slice
Posts: 675
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 328 times
Been thanked: 117 times

Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#40068

Postby staffordian » March 21st, 2017, 10:19 am

We have a rather old Ideal Isar combi boiler which we "inherited" when we bought our present property.

It is at least 12 years old, maybe older, so I don't expect it to last very much longer. Having said that, it had behaved pretty faultlessly until last week; a failed expansion vessel being the only problem.

Last week it failed and the British Gas chap we had in to repair it naturally tried to arrange for a salesman to call to discuss a replacement. I declined his kind offer but we got to discussing new boilers. I said how I'd heard how good Vaillant boilers were, but his response was don't touch Vaillant, they leak like a sieve, and he has lots of visits to repair them, whereas WB boilers he rarely sees as they are more reliable.

This goes against everything I've heard of Vaillant and I just wondered what the current view of the experts is.

Have Vaillant gone downhill, or do BG make more from WB boilers?

I've no intention of getting BG to replace ours when it finally gets too unreliable but the whole business does seem a bit of a minefield.

All views welcome!

Thanks

Staffordian

Itsallaguess
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1875
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:16 pm
Has thanked: 286 times
Been thanked: 869 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#40071

Postby Itsallaguess » March 21st, 2017, 10:27 am

staffordian wrote:
Last week it failed and the British Gas chap we had in to repair it naturally tried to arrange for a salesman to call to discuss a replacement. I declined his kind offer but we got to discussing new boilers. I said how I'd heard how good Vaillant boilers were, but his response was don't touch Vaillant, they leak like a sieve, and he has lots of visits to repair them, whereas WB boilers he rarely sees as they are more reliable.

This goes against everything I've heard of Vaillant and I just wondered what the current view of the experts is.


Well I'm certainly no expert when it comes to boilers, but as a Vaillant combi-boiler owner for a very long time, I can do nothing but highly recommend them, and would look at no other manufacturer if it came to replacing my current boiler.

Purely anecdotal of course, as are most of the views you'll get around here, but I well remember Mike4 telling people that he knew very little about Vaillant boilers simply due to the fact that he never got called out for them, and that stuck in my mind at the time as being a good representation from the service-side.

The only question I'd ask is if the BG guy was speaking from a completely unbiased opinion. Things may have changed in recent years, but that's not a position that would often be placed against BG employees...

Here's the post from Mike4 on TMF, talking about the lack of call-outs to Vaillant boilers. It's from 2007 so there's always the chance things have slipped a little, but given that in the same post he's talking about this particular couple's WB boiler being unreliable, then it would take two big shifts in sentiment for the decision to swing in that direction -

http://boards.fool.co.uk/its-not-exactl ... 49110.aspx

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

FredBloggs
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2037
Joined: November 12th, 2016, 8:42 am
Has thanked: 594 times
Been thanked: 374 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#40075

Postby FredBloggs » March 21st, 2017, 10:35 am

If you read Which? magazine (I used to till the same repeated articles got too much justify the costs) they recommend WB and Vaillant. Myself, I prefer the Vaillant and had one installed about 5 years ago with the 7 year warranty. dEfinitely worth looking at. Our long trusted plumber told us he knew very little about Vaillant as he can't remember having to repair one. He is a Vaillant installer, and that fact about repairs sold it to us.

redsturgeon
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3330
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 260 times
Been thanked: 432 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#40101

Postby redsturgeon » March 21st, 2017, 11:39 am

FredBloggs wrote:If you read Which? magazine (I used to till the same repeated articles got too much justify the costs) they recommend WB and Vaillant. Myself, I prefer the Vaillant and had one installed about 5 years ago with the 7 year warranty. dEfinitely worth looking at. Our long trusted plumber told us he knew very little about Vaillant as he can't remember having to repair one. He is a Vaillant installer, and that fact about repairs sold it to us.


I had my boiler replaced a couple of months ago. Our plumber who I would absolutely trust to give an honest opinion said that he would happily recommend either Worcester or Vaillant. We went for the Vaillant in the end since they had a model that was closest to the spec we needed.

John

staffordian
Lemon Slice
Posts: 675
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 328 times
Been thanked: 117 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#40106

Postby staffordian » March 21st, 2017, 11:47 am

Thank you both. Your views coincide with what I thought, and as a long time Fool member, Mike4's views are ones I take seriously.

I don't know what to make of the BG chap's thoughts. No doubt he would have received a bonus if I'd agreed to a sales appointment but I'd be surprised if the make of boiler I had chosen would have altered that, so unless there is a company line in favour of WB I'm not sure what he had to gain by dissing Vaillant.

That's still my boiler of choice, I'm just hoping it's a few years until I have to back that choice with hard cash :)

Staffordian

staffordian
Lemon Slice
Posts: 675
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 328 times
Been thanked: 117 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#40141

Postby staffordian » March 21st, 2017, 12:48 pm

Thanks John, I hadn't spotted your post when I started my reply above.

Seems pretty conclusive that I wouldn't go far wrong with either and my leaning towards Vaillants isn't misplaced.

Staffordian

sg31
Lemon Slice
Posts: 308
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:35 am
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#40275

Postby sg31 » March 21st, 2017, 7:20 pm

I've fitted Vaillants to my last 3 properties, I've had them serviced annually and other than that they have worked faultlessly.

I wonder if British Gas have an arrangement with WB to fit their boilers.

I wouldn't trust a BG engineer further than I could throw one. An independent boiler engineer I used in the past had numerous tales of boilers they had condemned that he had fixed easily and cheaply. Obviously this might be just be hearsay but it has stuck with me.

Vaillant were recently offering a 10 year warranty on boilers fitted by their authorised installers, it may still be available, the only stipulation was that the boiler is serviced annually.

Sussexlad
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 163
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#40292

Postby Sussexlad » March 21st, 2017, 7:55 pm

sg31 wrote:Vaillant were recently offering a 10 year warranty on boilers fitted by their authorised installers, it may still be available, the only stipulation was that the boiler is serviced annually.


Yes, I got that deal 18 months ago. So far so good. I can't imagine they could offer that, if leaks were a common issue !

GJHarney
Lemon Slice
Posts: 434
Joined: November 26th, 2016, 11:06 am
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#40305

Postby GJHarney » March 21st, 2017, 8:43 pm

I too had an Ideal Isar that packed up just before Christmas. That was 8 years old which the engineer thought was pretty good considering their poor reputation (it tended to be the pcb's that were their weak link), so for the OP's to get better than that is good going.

Anyway, I did quite a bit of research when looking for a replacement combi, wished that we could still get simpler, cheaper very long-lasting non-condensing boilers even if they are less efficient, and in the end for my 1920s 3 bed semi went for a Worcester Greenstar 30i with a basic wireless digital temperature controller (£2,120 inc VAT and fitting by a local company and Worcester-Bosch main agent). I was swayed by the reliability reports, reputation, and the fact that it came with a 10 year guarantee (so long as it gets a yearly service, although I can get any vat-registered gas safe person to do that, I'm not tied to the company that fitted it).

Vaillant would have been considered but there was not a local company near me that was a main agent for them (I never wanted to go near British Gas, overpriced and with a tendency to sub-contract out much of their work), Baxi was also on the list (a few hundred cheaper, decent rep and recommended by the engineer, but only a 5 year guarantee and I figured the extra money for the Worcester was worth it for a 10 year parts and labour), and also perhaps oddly Ideal as their new Logic+ range has got a lot of very good write-ups and the Hull-based company seems to have moved on from from the Isar bad years (although long-term reliability of the Logics has yet to be tested), but the local company that is on their dealer network didn't respond to my request for a quote so they were off the list.

My advice would be to go with a local company that has a decent reputation and factor in the length of the parts & labour guarantee (and check if it has any catches) and then see what prices you can get on the shortlist that follows.

Pheidippides
Posts: 40
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:07 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#40640

Postby Pheidippides » March 22nd, 2017, 11:25 pm

Using Mike4's non-recommendation I also went for a Vaillant Eco-etc 24 combi four years ago and so far trouble-free. My in-laws bought a WB on the recommendation of their plumber and it has been fine also.

The only thing I don't like about some WB boilers is the up-and-over outlet pipe. I think that aesthetically it makes the boiler more obstrusive

Regards

Pheid

staffordian
Lemon Slice
Posts: 675
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 328 times
Been thanked: 117 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#40733

Postby staffordian » March 23rd, 2017, 11:09 am

Thanks all. Doesn't look like I would go far wrong with either, so when the time comes, I think it will boil down to local recommended installers and their quotes.

beeswax
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1697
Joined: December 20th, 2016, 11:20 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 159 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#42447

Postby beeswax » March 30th, 2017, 4:51 pm

Sussexlad wrote:
sg31 wrote:Vaillant were recently offering a 10 year warranty on boilers fitted by their authorised installers, it may still be available, the only stipulation was that the boiler is serviced annually.


Yes, I got that deal 18 months ago. So far so good. I can't imagine they could offer that, if leaks were a common issue !


Well doesn't it depend on what annual charge they make?

I have a 5 year old WB boiler and its not been serviced for the last three years and its fine. My neighbour who is a Plumber and services gas boilers, told me these new boilers don't need servicing like the old ones used to and all they do is check the gas pressure anyway. Its used just for the CH and its situated in my garage. Having said that I will probably get it checked this summer. As if it were to go wrong, it would be mid winter. Just to add that these new boilers have an inbuilt fault code system that will tell you when its faulty. Perhaps no wonder they can give all these years in warranty that you would never get with the old designs. Those thermo couples were a nightmare and always going wrong and the pilot light going out.

quelquod
Lemon Slice
Posts: 484
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 12:26 pm
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#42466

Postby quelquod » March 30th, 2017, 5:54 pm

Vaillant don't make a charge, you can have it serviced by any registered gas guy. AFAIK all boiler warranties are invalidated without an annual service.

My experience of my former (nearly 40 year old) boiler was that it never required servicing, just a sweep out (what could you service?) and needed a thermocouple at roughly 10-year intervals. interesting view from your plumber though.

beeswax
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1697
Joined: December 20th, 2016, 11:20 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 159 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#42496

Postby beeswax » March 30th, 2017, 8:21 pm

quelquod wrote:Vaillant don't make a charge, you can have it serviced by any registered gas guy. AFAIK all boiler warranties are invalidated without an annual service.

My experience of my former (nearly 40 year old) boiler was that it never required servicing, just a sweep out (what could you service?) and needed a thermocouple at roughly 10-year intervals. interesting view from your plumber though.


It would be interesting to know exactly what they do in the annual service and anyone know what sort of charge to expect. I could ask my plumber neighbour but sort of don't like asking him as he may think I'm asking for a favour and anyway I think he has retired now. Do these new boilers create any soot that needs sweeping out? I would think 50 quid for the service would be the range but just guessing?

sg31
Lemon Slice
Posts: 308
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:35 am
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#42504

Postby sg31 » March 30th, 2017, 9:32 pm

I've no idea what is done in the service but my current Vaillant gets serviced annually, current price is £50. When I lived in Brighton I paid £60.

Really all I'm interested in is that the service book is signed each year to keep the warranty going.

FredBloggs
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2037
Joined: November 12th, 2016, 8:42 am
Has thanked: 594 times
Been thanked: 374 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#42520

Postby FredBloggs » March 31st, 2017, 12:38 am

sg31 wrote:I've no idea what is done in the service but my current Vaillant gets serviced annually, current price is £50. When I lived in Brighton I paid £60.

Really all I'm interested in is that the service book is signed each year to keep the warranty going.

Yes, that's right. IIRC, Vaillant do stipulate that for the extended 7 or 10 year warranty offers that a registered Vaillant installer signs the service record book. Our long time trusted heating guy comes once a year, plugs his laptop into the boiler, has a cup of tea, chats for half an hour or so. Then looks at the readings on his laptop, says "same as last year". Signs the warranty record book, asks for GBP 40 and goes away happy because we always give him GBP 50. Job sorted for another year.

quelquod
Lemon Slice
Posts: 484
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 12:26 pm
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#42543

Postby quelquod » March 31st, 2017, 9:13 am

FredBloggs wrote:Our long time trusted heating guy comes once a year, plugs his laptop into the boiler, has a cup of tea, chats for half an hour or so. Then looks at the readings on his laptop, says "same as last year". Signs the warranty record book, asks for GBP 40 and goes away happy because we always give him GBP 50. Job sorted for another year.

It's a treat to look forwards to but from reading the Vaillant manual he should be doing just a little more than that. :D

FredBloggs
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2037
Joined: November 12th, 2016, 8:42 am
Has thanked: 594 times
Been thanked: 374 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#42546

Postby FredBloggs » March 31st, 2017, 9:14 am

quelquod wrote:
FredBloggs wrote:Our long time trusted heating guy comes once a year, plugs his laptop into the boiler, has a cup of tea, chats for half an hour or so. Then looks at the readings on his laptop, says "same as last year". Signs the warranty record book, asks for GBP 40 and goes away happy because we always give him GBP 50. Job sorted for another year.

It's a treat to look forwards to but from reading the Vaillant manual he should be doing just a little more than that. :D

Yeah, but not a lot more!

beeswax
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1697
Joined: December 20th, 2016, 11:20 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 159 times

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#42614

Postby beeswax » March 31st, 2017, 1:00 pm

FredBloggs wrote:
quelquod wrote:
FredBloggs wrote:Our long time trusted heating guy comes once a year, plugs his laptop into the boiler, has a cup of tea, chats for half an hour or so. Then looks at the readings on his laptop, says "same as last year". Signs the warranty record book, asks for GBP 40 and goes away happy because we always give him GBP 50. Job sorted for another year.

It's a treat to look forwards to but from reading the Vaillant manual he should be doing just a little more than that. :D

Yeah, but not a lot more!


Well that two plumbers that do much the same thing and so they mustn't want cleaning and brushing out soot like the old ones. I suppose 40 quid sounds reasonable and also to continue with a long term warranty on it when other things could go wrong eventually. Its also sounds there won't be much of an issue which ever boiler you choose re the OP..

Shantele
Posts: 1
Joined: February 27th, 2018, 10:18 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Vaillant v Worcester Bosch

#120922

Postby Shantele » February 28th, 2018, 12:51 am

staffordian wrote:Thank you both. Your views coincide with what I thought, and as a long time Fool member, Mike4's views are ones I take seriously.

I don't know what to make of the BG chap's thoughts. No doubt he would have received a bonus if I'd agreed to a sales appointment but I'd be surprised if the make of boiler I had chosen would have altered that, so unless there is a company line in favour of WB I'm not sure what he had to gain by dissing Vaillant.

That's still my boiler of choice, I'm just hoping it's a few years until I have to back that choice with hard cash :)

Staffordian

If I can interject here. Companies like BG absolutely will have a courtesy fast track line to a specific manufacturer, this is easier and cheaper for them.
By only sticking to one brand, it eliminates the time wasted while needing your boiler up and running after a fault.
If they used several they would have to go out, view the boiler, order the parts and eventually go back to the broken boiler to get it fixed.
So keeping to one brand cuts out a lot of faffing.
Also Worcester Bosch are a cheaper, less superior brand.

And of course BG employ sales advisors to give you a quote, whether that be at your home or over the phone, therefore it seems to me that the advisor was not bring very professional with that negative comment. I have learned over the years, best practice as a sales advisor myself, by slagging off the competition, you are showing desperation, and a customer can sense that too.

I work for a boiler replacement firm, who will only touch the Vaillant for out customers. We do also use Worcester Bosch, but that is only with what is called an eco grant from the government.
I'm not sure if you remember the free boiler scheme, well now "free" is not the case any more. An eco customer would have to qualify for a subsidy off the boiler replacement and the cost to them could be between £350 and £750, depending on what benefits are in place for that customer, ie; Working Tax Credit. So bearing in mind a usual quotation, using a like for like swap out, can be in the region of anywhere between £2500 to £6500, depending on different factors. So we do then use the cheaper boiler.

We do rate both brands for our customers, but for those not getting government help, we feel that by using the Vaillant range, we are ensuring our customers get the creme' de le creme' in products.
I think I am waffling,cross this make sense?


Return to “Building and DIY”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests