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Still in the 7th Century

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Avarus
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Still in the 7th Century

#44364

Postby Avarus » April 7th, 2017, 1:30 pm

Tehran - Hundreds of runners took part in Tehran's first-ever marathon on Friday, but many women were outraged to find they could only run a short distance in a closed-off stadium.

While men ran through Iran's capital in the morning, women were allowed to run just 10km in Azadi stadium in the afternoon - with no male spectators or officials permitted.


http://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/Ath ... d-20170407

SteMiS
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Re: Still in the 7th Century

#44392

Postby SteMiS » April 7th, 2017, 3:01 pm

7th century? You mean more like the 1970/80's...

http://www.marathonguide.com/history/ol ... pter25.cfm

Before the 1980s, there were no women's distance races in the Olympics. In the Moscow Games, the longest race for women was the 1,500 meters, which had been instituted in 1972....

Before 1972, women had been barred from the most famous marathon outside the Olympics - Boston...

On October 28, 1973, the first all women's marathon was held in Waldniel, West Germany.

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Re: Still in the 7th Century

#44821

Postby mswjr » April 9th, 2017, 5:28 pm

GJHarney wrote:
SteMiS wrote:7th century? You mean more like the 1970/80's...

http://www.marathonguide.com/history/ol ... pter25.cfm

Before the 1980s, there were no women's distance races in the Olympics. In the Moscow Games, the longest race for women was the 1,500 meters, which had been instituted in 1972....

Before 1972, women had been barred from the most famous marathon outside the Olympics - Boston...

On October 28, 1973, the first all women's marathon was held in Waldniel, West Germany.



Exactly. Katherine Switzer is another good example of just how short peoples memories are - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOGXvBAmTsY

Sadly the apparent religious bigotry of comments like those from Halicarnassus are the opposite to what female Muslim runners need, such as those risking their lives to run: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/the-running-blog/2015/oct/28/afghanistans-female-marathon-runner-defies-danger-to-go-the-distance


Perhaps what female Muslim runners really need is enlightened Muslim leadership?

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Re: Still in the 7th Century

#45308

Postby DiamondEcho » April 11th, 2017, 4:27 pm

mswjr wrote:Perhaps what female Muslim runners really need is enlightened Muslim leadership?


I can't see how an 'enlightened leadership' could be Muslim and demonstrate 'enlightenment', so that might be an oxymoron. IME anything not permitted by their theology is done behind closed doors, often in private, and if not then beyond the gaze and judgement of their fellow countrymen. Perhaps the more restrictive a religion, the greater proportion of hypocrites it has.

I've seen many examples of this, with distant in-laws of my age group. Upstanding and standard-issue 'good Muslims' in public, but behind closed door there's plenty of 'special tea' [whisky served in a teapot into tea glasses where it looks like black tea]. 'Going to pray' [code for going to the garden to smoke a joint].
There's a parallel I've seen with observant Jews in the Middle-East, 'cooking a dish with Zebra' [pork bacon].

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Re: Still in the 7th Century

#45309

Postby mswjr » April 11th, 2017, 4:37 pm

DiamondEcho wrote:
mswjr wrote:Perhaps what female Muslim runners really need is enlightened Muslim leadership?


I can't see how an 'enlightened leadership' could be Muslim and demonstrate 'enlightenment', so that might be an oxymoron. IME anything not permitted by their theology is done behind closed doors, often in private, and if not then beyond the gaze and judgement of their fellow countrymen. Perhaps the more restrictive a religion, the greater proportion of hypocrites it has.

I've seen many examples of this, with distant in-laws of my age group. Upstanding and standard-issue 'good Muslims' in public, but behind closed door there's plenty of 'special tea' [whisky served in a teapot into tea glasses where it looks like black tea]. 'Going to pray' [code for going to the garden to smoke a joint].
There's a parallel I've seen with observant Jews in the Middle-East, 'cooking a dish with Zebra' [pork bacon].


I tend to agree, although one must hope that what is or isn't allowed is subject to interpretation by Muslim leadership so may, just may, stand a chance of reconciling itself with the c.21. under more enlightened interpretations.
Further, I can't see how it helps anyone to have reasonable observation labelled religious bigotry as earlier in this thread.

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Re: Still in the 7th Century

#45352

Postby DiamondEcho » April 11th, 2017, 6:40 pm

But where do these these 'enlightened Muslim interpretations' exist?
Even on the borders of Europe, and perhaps even within it, the religion is conveyed in a pretty mono-dimensional way [IME].

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Re: Still in the 7th Century

#45358

Postby vrdiver » April 11th, 2017, 7:00 pm

DiamondEcho wrote:IME anything not permitted by their theology is done behind closed doors, often in private, and if not then beyond the gaze and judgement of their fellow countrymen. Perhaps the more restrictive a religion, the greater proportion of hypocrites it has.

I've seen many examples of this, with distant in-laws of my age group. Upstanding and standard-issue 'good Muslims' in public, but behind closed door there's plenty of 'special tea' [whisky served in a teapot into tea glasses where it looks like black tea]. 'Going to pray' [code for going to the garden to smoke a joint].
There's a parallel I've seen with observant Jews in the Middle-East, 'cooking a dish with Zebra' [pork bacon].


Perhaps it is these small steps of rebellion that will lead to a 21c mind set? As more and more people find that they are breaking their religious rules in favour of social and middle class aspirations, they become less fervent. Just as the Christian West has declined (measured by church bums-on-seats) so perhaps will the mosques fall silent as people find better things to do with their time.

It may need a generation or two to pass before the trend is irreversible, and it won't happen at the same rate in all countries, but I suspect religion of all kinds will become less important as education replaces mysticism.

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Re: Still in the 7th Century

#45382

Postby beeswax » April 11th, 2017, 9:04 pm

It's not that simple. They will do it by stealth like with young children in schools and separating the girls and boys and then objecting to how females dress. Drip, drip. The Muslim Council of GB wanted Sharia Law on the Statute book. British born Muslims have been the problem and millions of Muslim immigrants can change the culture of the country by sheer numbers all who have been indoctrinated to believe their religious book was dictated by God himself. Has anyone asked them what is it they want from us after each criminal act. The media is full of the tragic events but nobody seems to want to ask WHY?

Maybe they could show the relevant text from the Quran that orders them to kill non Muslims? The big difference between Christianity is that not every child was brought up or indoctrinated by 'Christian' parents at least in the UK, where the opposite seems to be the case with Islam and why you virtually see every young Muslim girl covering her hair. As I keep saying, It's their book of rules that needs to be challenged and why faith schools are so dangerous in allowing these things to fester.

Is it reasonable for faith schools and their places of worship not to reinforce their core beliefs? Is an Imam going to preach against the Quran? Or even a Rabbi and Christian Minister against the Bible?

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Re: Still in the 7th Century

#45413

Postby SteMiS » April 12th, 2017, 12:14 am

beeswax wrote:and why you virtually see every young Muslim girl covering her hair

Maybe you just need to get out more...

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Re: Still in the 7th Century

#45444

Postby DiamondEcho » April 12th, 2017, 9:14 am

beeswax wrote:Maybe they could show the relevant text from the Quran that orders them to kill non Muslims? The big difference between Christianity is that not every child was brought up or indoctrinated by 'Christian' parents at least in the UK, where the opposite seems to be the case with Islam and why you virtually see every young Muslim girl covering her hair.


It's not solely what the text says, it is also how it is interpreted, which of course can be in several ways. It might [I don't claim to be an expert] be reasonable to say that where it calls for 'killing non-muslims' that is within the context of a 'just war'. It isn't a kind of blanket license to go out and kill non-muslims. That's per the book. But then you have how the book is preached/taught/interpreted and understood, which can be a very different thing.

Add to the mix their prophecy of 'the return of the caliphate'. I.e. a kind of return to the glorious golden age of their religion. I imagine for some it's a short step between reading a prophecy and believing you ought to help bring about it happening. Bring in status/kudos in fighting for such a cause, promises of 72 virgins and so on, and away you go - etc etc.

Re: your latter point about hair covering.
I'm currently in the Middle East, and from the room I'm sat overlook a sports ground. It's a facility where school-children are bussed in for their sports classes. There are currently about 40 children playing a pretty informal game of football. About 25 of them are girls, of which about 22 are wearing head-scarves. The curious thing is none of them can possibly have reached puberty, they're not old enough, so they have no need to cover their hair. It's probably an example of theological gold-plating; 'Look how pious and upstanding our family is, even our 5 year old daughter who has no need to cover her hair has decided that she wants to'.

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Re: Still in the 7th Century

#45492

Postby melonfool » April 12th, 2017, 12:30 pm

Moderator Message:
I have removed a number of posts from this thread - I don't have the time to pore through posts and just remove offending lines so I have culled. I won't be sending individual PMs to say what has been removed.

Please keep to the topic and do not call people names. If people are called names it's a lot better not to refer to that as that can tend to spiral into nastiness and also mean that your post is removed even if it did make other points. Just report and we will deal with it.

Please feel free to repost anything from your posts that did not involve name-calling.

I would also say though that the OP is only just OK. We are not generally that happy with people just posting links to news reports with no comment. This is a discussion board which we hope will host useful and intelligent discussion. Just starting a thread with a link is not acceptable and is like lobbing a bomb into a full room of people.

I am leaving it this time as, despite the removals, the thread has been generally civil, but please do bear in mind that this practice is frowned upon by the moderators.

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