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The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

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beeswax
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The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#51400

Postby beeswax » May 5th, 2017, 12:08 pm

I thought I would start another thread as the other one is getting rather long and has gone off topic anyway.

One poster (Helicarnessus) who has said he is a Catholic has just said the Catholic Church had no problem with Darwin and they have always agreed with Evolution. This is news to me and if that was the case how does that fit in with their view of original sin and Adam and Eve, which is the very foundation of all the abrahamic faiths as both Muslims and Christians that I know believe that God created humans as we are now. So lets see what the Catholic Church actually says about this.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... s2c1p7.htm
Original sin - an essential truth of the faith

388 With the progress of Revelation, the reality of sin is also illuminated. Although to some extent the People of God in the Old Testament had tried to understand the pathos of the human condition in the light of the history of the fall narrated in Genesis, they could not grasp this story's ultimate meaning, which is revealed only in the light of the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.261 We must know Christ as the source of grace in order to know Adam as the source of sin. The Spirit-Paraclete, sent by the risen Christ, came to "convict the world concerning sin",262 by revealing him who is its Redeemer.

389 The doctrine of original sin is, so to speak, the "reverse side" of the Good News that Jesus is the Savior of all men, that all need salvation and that salvation is offered to all through Christ. The Church, which has the mind of Christ,263 knows very well that we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ.

How to read the account of the fall

390 The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man.264 Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.265

That is just for starters and so Helicarnessus who unfortunately has me on his ignore list as my questions were too difficult for him won't see this thread and so maybe someone else will clarify his position and perhaps need to read what his church preaches?

I've made the same point many times that if the story in Genesis about Adam and Eve is NOT true that is obvious for all those who believe in evolution, then the fall of man could not have happened, so no original sin and so no need for a human sacrifice ie Jesus to atone for our sins. So the very foundation of the Christian Church was and is based on a false hood.

You will note the Catholic Church tries to get round it by saying the Early Jews didn't understand their own writings Hmmm by saying Genesis was using 'figurative' language but then reverts back to the literarism of original sin committed by our 'first' parents..

To be honest, I don't know how the hell they get away with this deception and confirms what I already know is they worship Jesus Christ and have placed God second if they think about him at all if you ever go to their church services. And they will do anything and say anything to ensure their power and influence remains even if it means not telling the truth as we know it and makes a mockery of science in the process.

Pity he doesn't read my posts as he could really learn something...Something I am continuing to try to do even if it goes against my pre conceived ideas, something most believers will never do..

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#51693

Postby DiamondEcho » May 6th, 2017, 4:54 pm

I'll be following this topic in case there is an illuminating reply :)

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#51894

Postby RowdyReptile » May 7th, 2017, 6:47 pm

There are Churches in the Christian community that do not subscribe to the concept of original sin. This then makes other doctrines like immaculate conception a position that would be hard to agree with, as it follows.

The events depicted in the Garden are instructional, but it is clear God never meant us to stay in a perfect place, and basically brain dead with no thoughts of our own. If God meant us to stay in Eden, we would have stayed in Eden, unless there are Christians that believe the devil can thwart God's plan. Then that gets really problematic, doesn't it?

Just musing now.

RR

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#52398

Postby RowdyReptile » May 10th, 2017, 12:07 am

The truth is, the so called First parents, whether they be metaphorical or actual, did us a favor.

I often think that God was almost amused.

God: Here comes Lucifer to "thwart" my plan.

some angel: He never learns does he?

God: apparently not. What fruit do you think he will use to entice them?

some angel: Well, they haven't seen any fruit in current form, so I imagine it doesn't matter. Quince or an apple I suppose.

God: Do you think he will tell them they are naked?

some angel: Probably. Standard tactic.

God: He is giving snakes a bad name.

RR

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#67349

Postby XFool » July 14th, 2017, 6:46 pm

beeswax wrote:I thought I would start another thread as the other one is getting rather long and has gone off topic anyway.

One poster (Helicarnessus) who has said he is a Catholic has just said the Catholic Church had no problem with Darwin and they have always agreed with Evolution. This is news to me and if that was the case how does that fit in with their view of original sin and Adam and Eve, which is the very foundation of all the abrahamic faiths as both Muslims and Christians that I know believe that God created humans as we are now. So lets see what the Catholic Church actually says about this.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... s2c1p7.htm
Original sin - an essential truth of the faith

388 With the progress of Revelation, the reality of sin is also illuminated. Although to some extent the People of God in the Old Testament had tried to understand the pathos of the human condition in the light of the history of the fall narrated in Genesis, they could not grasp this story's ultimate meaning, which is revealed only in the light of the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.261 We must know Christ as the source of grace in order to know Adam as the source of sin. The Spirit-Paraclete, sent by the risen Christ, came to "convict the world concerning sin",262 by revealing him who is its Redeemer.

How to read the account of the fall

Long, long ago I was a Catholic. But as it was so long ago, it is with some trepidation I stick my oar in here. I certainly remember little now about the details of the Catholic Catechism. So I cannot possibly give a definitive answer.

beeswax wrote:I've made the same point many times that if the story in Genesis about Adam and Eve is NOT true that is obvious for all those who believe in evolution, then the fall of man could not have happened, so no original sin and so no need for a human sacrifice ie Jesus to atone for our sins. So the very foundation of the Christian Church was and is based on a false hood.

Surely we can make a distinction between something being historically and literally 'true' and it being symbolically 'true'? A myth (in the original sense of the word) can carry 'a truth' without it being literally true.

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#67437

Postby beeswax » July 15th, 2017, 10:09 am

Xfool wrote:
Surely we can make a distinction between something being historically and literally 'true' and it being symbolically 'true'? A myth (in the original sense of the word) can carry 'a truth' without it being literally true.


There could be examples of that but the way the church has treated this event in Genesis rules out that concept even though many theologians and Church Leaders love to say just that. Because they acknowledge that it could not possibly be literally true now. But that is only because they have had to but there are still many who still do think its all true. But for thousands of years nobody questioned it.

However the point is obvious that if that isn't literally true then its literally false and so made up to enslave humanity to the Church who ALL still today preach the lie then that God has separated himself from us and that the ONLY way back is to believe that he sent his only son to die for our sins and that God won't forgive us and we cannot enter heaven unless we do so. The Catholic Church believe they are the only true church and hold the keys to the kingdom and hold men and women's souls to ransom by the confessional and of course money as in the sale of indulgencies that helped fund the Vatican and lifestyle of the hierarchy.

Its an evil doctrine that was never true and can never be true and therefore it should be called out for what it is but nobody in authority will do that and taxpayers fund faith schools in order they can continue to promote these untruths and continue to deceive and enslave humanity.

Nobody has any evidence that God spoke to any man in the bible or to Muhammad or Joseph Smith and all their adherents preach stuff that IF it was written today would be banned and the writers prosecuted. There is no evidence that God exists or acts in the world as much as me as a former Christian would like to think that it happens occasionally.

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#67725

Postby XFool » July 16th, 2017, 5:34 pm

beeswax wrote:However the point is obvious that if that isn't literally true then its literally false...

But could still embody or express a 'truth'?

beeswax wrote:The Catholic Church believe they are the only true church and hold the keys to the kingdom and hold men and women's souls to ransom by the confessional and of course money as in the sale of indulgencies that helped fund the Vatican and lifestyle of the hierarchy.

Don't several religions think they are "the one true Way"?

I think you are a bit late with the "sale of indulgencies"! I heard a chap called Martin Luther stuck his oar in. ;)

beeswax wrote:Nobody has any evidence that God spoke to any man in the bible or to Muhammad or Joseph Smith and all their adherents preach stuff that IF it was written today would be banned and the writers prosecuted. There is no evidence that God exists or acts in the world as much as me as a former Christian would like to think that it happens occasionally.

So why should you care?

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#67757

Postby beeswax » July 16th, 2017, 10:32 pm

XFool wrote:
beeswax wrote:However the point is obvious that if that isn't literally true then its literally false...

But could still embody or express a 'truth'?

beeswax wrote:The Catholic Church believe they are the only true church and hold the keys to the kingdom and hold men and women's souls to ransom by the confessional and of course money as in the sale of indulgencies that helped fund the Vatican and lifestyle of the hierarchy.

Don't several religions think they are "the one true Way"?

I think you are a bit late with the "sale of indulgencies"! I heard a chap called Martin Luther stuck his oar in. ;)

beeswax wrote:Nobody has any evidence that God spoke to any man in the bible or to Muhammad or Joseph Smith and all their adherents preach stuff that IF it was written today would be banned and the writers prosecuted. There is no evidence that God exists or acts in the world as much as me as a former Christian would like to think that it happens occasionally.

So why should you care?


Why should I care?

Everyone should care when almost half the world believes in myths and superstitions as God's truth and a lot of people have died and are dying because of their beliefs. Homosexuals are still treated as sinners in ALL religions. At my age I am past caring really and its up to future generations to try and sort it all out.

Be careful when you try and express an 'opinion' as 'truth' which is what the bible does in spades. ie they were the opinions of mostly ignorant desert dwellers with a distorted view of the world and certainly that God is active in the world. They were essentially misogynistic too. I've said the bible should have in its title the same thing as the Bunyan's Pilgrims Progress that its a work of fiction and allegorical and should be read as such. There is a sort of 'truth' in these works of fiction that teaches good will prevail over evil in the end. But the Jews may take a different view and the fictional story of the Good Samaritan is a very good example that stopping and helping someone along our way and so in that sense you are right. Unfortunately today if you stop by the wayside you are likely to be robbed by people just waiting to do just that...my cynical view coming out again! ;)

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#67762

Postby ReformedCharacter » July 16th, 2017, 11:05 pm

XFool wrote:
beeswax wrote:Surely we can make a distinction between something being historically and literally 'true' and it being symbolically 'true'? A myth (in the original sense of the word) can carry 'a truth' without it being literally true.


Yes of course, unless you happen to have an axe to grind :D

The story of Noah is a similar thing. Many cultures have a flood myth and there is also historical evidence of sudden widespread flooding in various places. The myth may have resulted from a real historical event but the bit about animals entering 2 x 2, probably not! Given that these stories would have been passed orally from generation to generation amongst people who probably had a story telling tradition, it's not surprising that the stories become 'embellished' over time.

RC

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#67766

Postby ReformedCharacter » July 16th, 2017, 11:31 pm

beeswax wrote:ie they were the opinions of mostly ignorant desert dwellers with a distorted view of the world ...)

Well, that's the Cradle of Civilisation for you, full of ignorant desert dwellers! But remind me, where did algebra, trigonometry and geometry find their most significant development? And before that, the development of number use and astronomy.

Was it in Liverpool? Or London. Or Birmingham even?

RC

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#67770

Postby beeswax » July 17th, 2017, 12:10 am

ReformedCharacter wrote:
beeswax wrote:ie they were the opinions of mostly ignorant desert dwellers with a distorted view of the world ...)

Well, that's the Cradle of Civilisation for you, full of ignorant desert dwellers! But remind me, where did algebra, trigonometry and geometry find their most significant development? And before that, the development of number use and astronomy.

Was it in Liverpool? Or London. Or Birmingham even?

RC


Haha!

Nah the Old Testament was written hundreds of years AFTER the event and was passed by word of mouth by these desert dwellers and as just said, always embellished along the way. It was the Greeks that developed all the above and not the Jewish Nomads...I think you knew that. ;) Even so both the Roman and Greeks in the first century had stone idols as Gods and mythical stories to tell like Zeus, Thor and Mount Olympus etc. The NT was written in Greek of course and I always said that if God wanted to persuade us of eternal truths, his son would have been Greek, lol.

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#67824

Postby XFool » July 17th, 2017, 9:54 am

beeswax wrote:
ReformedCharacter wrote:
beeswax wrote:ie they were the opinions of mostly ignorant desert dwellers with a distorted view of the world ...)

Well, that's the Cradle of Civilisation for you, full of ignorant desert dwellers! But remind me, where did algebra, trigonometry and geometry find their most significant development? And before that, the development of number use and astronomy.

Was it in Liverpool? Or London. Or Birmingham even?

RC

Haha!

Nah the Old Testament was written hundreds of years AFTER the event and was passed by word of mouth by these desert dwellers and as just said, always embellished along the way. It was the Greeks that developed all the above and not the Jewish Nomads...I think you knew that. ;)

Just to be clear. Are you seriously saying it was the Greeks who developed algebra?

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#67850

Postby beeswax » July 17th, 2017, 11:13 am

1nv35t wrote:A church is an assembly, not a building or entity. A group of individuals who otherwise might have had no social contact, out of which the needy can be supported/aided by other church members. The old testament is a bunch of stories told to assemblies in days when there were none of the likes of radio, tv, internet. It may seem that catholic services predominately worship Jesus and Mary but fundamentally its the divine trinity, god the father, god the son, god the holy spirit, with life as we know it being born by immaculate conception (apparently out of nothing).

How did the big bang occur? The universe born out of nothing? Or was it transitional, an explosive conversion of unseen energy into matter. Energy never dies, its eternal. Whilst commonly considered as being the capacity to do work a better description is the capacity to cause movement. To me, as a Catholic, that energy (and matter produced by that energy) ... is god ... and is everywhere. The universe being born out of a particular entanglement of energy to generate mass/matter in a explosive manner. Everyone and everything is part of god.

You can partake in assemblies (church) whilst still holding your own beliefs. The church generally looks towards educating and helping its congregations and as a small part of that the catholic church follows a practice of reflecting upon your sins and repenting for those sins. Some time for reflection and consideration can make you a better individual.

You're a atheist and you don't want to partake of the benefits from a common assembly (church) and help others or perhaps even sometimes be helped by others. Nor reflect internally upon your own character. ... Fine. Use the writings and preachings to find fault and justification for not being part of such a assembly and again ... fine. Each to their own. Don't be surprised if some opt to put you on their ignore list as you suggest has occurred, as that's equally as fine.


Be careful how you read or interpret things as I am NOT an atheist. I am a Deist if you know what that means which is I believe that the universe was the design of a 'creator' who by the evidence we have does NOT interfere or interact with human beings. So millions of believers are wasting valuable and fruitless time on their bended knees hoping for answers that never come. Any eternal creator cannot have flesh and blood and so when we say God is a HE and has SON that is wishful thinking and we cannot possibly be made in the creator's image. I was a Christian for 60 years and went to various Churches over the years and have to say I have never met a bunch of hypocrites in my life such as the ones I came into contact apart from the odd one or two that is. Assemblies of such people are such as they treat their church as a social club rather than a religious one. The history of the Catholic Church is in my opinion an affront to human decency, intelligence and understanding and is plain wrong on its ideas of Jesus being God and God wanting us to believe in any Saviour. That Church burned people at the stake for having different ideas and beliefs and still say they are the only true church with all the others apostate and so please don't give me that they were tolerant in that respect. There is no divine trinity, that is man made like all religions make up stories and human sacrifice to Gods predate them all and were carried out by pagan societies when the harvest failed.

Of course they had to change but were forced to on many social issues and are still homophobic and misogynistic and were nowhere to be seen in the abolition of slavery and women's rights and equal opportunity. I have some sympathy with God being a Spirit that is present in every living thing but also means that spirit has no favourites or preference in what they believe or are atheists. Any good person need not fear God in this life or the next if there is one and why again the Christian faith cannot be true in its teachings that God condemned the whole world for the original sin of Adam, that we know never existed in any Garden of Eden in Genesis. The thing is religion ENSLAVES human minds and bodies and was and is designed to do just that to exploit our weaknesses and make us feel unworthy and so they can exploit us further and giving money is central to them that enables them to live in palaces while children go hungry. God IF he was watching would surely hate the Vatican and all its fancy clothes wearing Cardinals and so called works of art. Sell it all off and do what Jesus said....Sell ALL thou hast and give to the poor and follow him...

Please do not think that giving to charity is the domain of any church or believer. I personally give my money and my time now in what I consider worthwhile causes and do it because its the right thing to do and not from any religious perspective. So best not to judge atheists or others in the way people tend to. Both my MIL and late FIL are and were Christians all their lives, my wife still is one and you would be disgusted at the way their church treated them in their hour of need.

There was no immaculate conception. Mary was the mother of other children, she was not a sinner as most people are not as new born babies are not but your church had the ignorance to say to many grieving mothers their child could not go to heaven because they were not baptised and even could not be buried in the church yard. Such was their pathetic beliefs.

Indeed many other prominent Christian teachers through the ages believe the Catholic Church is evil and is the spawn of the devil himself. I just think its made up of people that do not THINK for themselves and so believe stuff that could not and has been demonstrated not to be true.

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#67853

Postby beeswax » July 17th, 2017, 11:23 am

XFool wrote:
beeswax wrote:
ReformedCharacter wrote:Well, that's the Cradle of Civilisation for you, full of ignorant desert dwellers! But remind me, where did algebra, trigonometry and geometry find their most significant development? And before that, the development of number use and astronomy.

Was it in Liverpool? Or London. Or Birmingham even?

RC

Haha!

Nah the Old Testament was written hundreds of years AFTER the event and was passed by word of mouth by these desert dwellers and as just said, always embellished along the way. It was the Greeks that developed all the above and not the Jewish Nomads...I think you knew that. ;)

Just to be clear. Are you seriously saying it was the Greeks who developed algebra?


Hi, well the Greeks had a huge input to mathematics and 'developed' them as we know it and Wiki says this..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebra

It talks about the ancient Babylonians but one thing is for sure....God's chosen people the Jews had little or no input.

Was Archimedes Greek? Pythagoras? Euclid?

Lots of people had an input into the concept of using numbers, formula and ideas without using the term 'algebra'. Its interesting to read about that again and so thanks for raising it...I know in my science degree many greek letters were used lol.

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#67865

Postby XFool » July 17th, 2017, 11:54 am

beeswax wrote:Hi, well the Greeks had a huge input to mathematics and 'developed' them as we know it and Wiki says this..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebra

It talks about the ancient Babylonians but one thing is for sure....God's chosen people the Jews had little or no input.

Was Archimedes Greek? Pythagoras? Euclid?

Yes, it does mention the Babylonians. It also mentions the Greeks:

"The roots of algebra can be traced to the ancient Babylonians, who developed an advanced arithmetical system with which they were able to do calculations in an algorithmic fashion.The Babylonians developed formulas to calculate solutions for problems typically solved today by using linear equations, quadratic equations, and indeterminate linear equations. By contrast, most Egyptians of this era, as well as Greek and Chinese mathematics in the 1st millennium BC, usually solved such equations by geometric methods, such as those described in the Rhind Mathematical Papyrus, Euclid's Elements, and The Nine Chapters on the Mathematical Art.

It does go on to mention Diophantus.

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#166605

Postby Tara » September 15th, 2018, 6:44 pm

Beeswax said :

Indeed many other prominent Christian teachers through the ages believe the Catholic Church is evil.


Yes we all get it old chap. You really really really hate the Catholic Church. It is interesting that the only faith you ever attack is the Catholic faith, just like all the other nasty and cowardly “politically correct” Haters in the media, and you never dare say a word against the other two monotheistic faiths.

But we all know that you may get prosecuted for Islamophobia and anti-semitism and “hate speech” if you said anything against muslims or Jews, and so it is much easier for you to stay on the safe ground of being anti-Catholic and saying hateful and vile things about the Catholic faith.

You are a coward. Your views are intended to be offensive to every Catholic Christian who reads them. You are anti-Christian. You only ever say hateful things about one faith, the Catholic faith. You are a coward.

You say you were a Christian for 60 years. And now you think everything that is Christian is evil and you tell this to the world on the internet.

Hopefully you will repent and ask Jesus Christ for forgiveness for your very hateful views on Him and His Church before it is too late for you.

God Bless

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#166620

Postby DiamondEcho » September 15th, 2018, 10:08 pm


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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#166704

Postby scrumpyjack » September 16th, 2018, 12:43 pm

and I'm a Pastafarian. My Lord's prayer goes like this.

Our Pasta
Who art in oven
In tomato sauce

Thy noodle come
Thy taste be YUM
Sprinkled with Parmesan

Give us this day
Our Garlic Bread
And forgive us our gluttony
As we forgive those
Who don’t like pasta

Lead us not in to
Vegetarianism
But deliver us some Pizza

For thine is the meatball,
The noodle and the sauce
Forever and ever

R’amen

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#166747

Postby Charlottesquare » September 16th, 2018, 5:57 pm

beeswax wrote:I thought I would start another thread as the other one is getting rather long and has gone off topic anyway.

One poster (Helicarnessus) who has said he is a Catholic has just said the Catholic Church had no problem with Darwin and they have always agreed with Evolution. This is news to me and if that was the case how does that fit in with their view of original sin and Adam and Eve, which is the very foundation of all the abrahamic faiths as both Muslims and Christians that I know believe that God created humans as we are now. So lets see what the Catholic Church actually says about this.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... s2c1p7.htm
Original sin - an essential truth of the faith

388 With the progress of Revelation, the reality of sin is also illuminated. Although to some extent the People of God in the Old Testament had tried to understand the pathos of the human condition in the light of the history of the fall narrated in Genesis, they could not grasp this story's ultimate meaning, which is revealed only in the light of the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.261 We must know Christ as the source of grace in order to know Adam as the source of sin. The Spirit-Paraclete, sent by the risen Christ, came to "convict the world concerning sin",262 by revealing him who is its Redeemer.

389 The doctrine of original sin is, so to speak, the "reverse side" of the Good News that Jesus is the Savior of all men, that all need salvation and that salvation is offered to all through Christ. The Church, which has the mind of Christ,263 knows very well that we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ.

How to read the account of the fall

390 The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man.264 Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.265

That is just for starters and so Helicarnessus who unfortunately has me on his ignore list as my questions were too difficult for him won't see this thread and so maybe someone else will clarify his position and perhaps need to read what his church preaches?

I've made the same point many times that if the story in Genesis about Adam and Eve is NOT true that is obvious for all those who believe in evolution, then the fall of man could not have happened, so no original sin and so no need for a human sacrifice ie Jesus to atone for our sins. So the very foundation of the Christian Church was and is based on a false hood.

You will note the Catholic Church tries to get round it by saying the Early Jews didn't understand their own writings Hmmm by saying Genesis was using 'figurative' language but then reverts back to the literarism of original sin committed by our 'first' parents..

To be honest, I don't know how the hell they get away with this deception and confirms what I already know is they worship Jesus Christ and have placed God second if they think about him at all if you ever go to their church services. And they will do anything and say anything to ensure their power and influence remains even if it means not telling the truth as we know it and makes a mockery of science in the process.

Pity he doesn't read my posts as he could really learn something...Something I am continuing to try to do even if it goes against my pre conceived ideas, something most believers will never do..


Consider Adam and Eve from a non literal perspective as a statement of the human condition not a historical series of events is the answer.

You maybe do not like this reliance on the figurative, and you have a fair argument in that it is, within the history of the Church, a fairly recent variant re its thought, but given they have changed their interpretation in light of evidence surely that needs commended; lets face it, we do not castigate science for its beliefs x period ago and we applaud it for its willingness to continue to revise its views.

Itsallaguess
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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#166751

Postby Itsallaguess » September 16th, 2018, 6:16 pm

Charlottesquare wrote:
Consider Adam and Eve from a non literal perspective as a statement of the human condition not a historical series of events is the answer.

You maybe do not like this reliance on the figurative, and you have a fair argument in that it is, within the history of the Church, a fairly recent variant re its thought, but given they have changed their interpretation in light of evidence surely that needs commended; lets face it, we do not castigate science for its beliefs x period ago and we applaud it for its willingness to continue to revise its views.


Can you please explain what 'evidence' the Church has used to change their interpretation?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess


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